Jacques Sercia / Joséphine Dalcier

[mosgau]

Hi, I'm looking for the birth or mariage act of Jacques Sercia and or Josephine Dalcier in France. Long story short he immigrated to Canada/Quebec around 1873, he may have done so after the death of Josephine. He later married Jeannette Carraz after the death of her husband François Larochette in 1877. It seems that since he didnt know how to read/write, his real name is not Sercia, I have seen it written different ways on different occasions: Sarcia, Sarciah, Cerciac, Cerssier etc... There seem to be alot of Sarcia in the Hautes-Pyrenées around that time but his real last name can be anybody's guess. If I am right, his birth date should be in the second half of december 1843.

Maybe passenger list: https://central.bac-lac.gc.ca/.item/?id=e003536469&op=img&app=passengerlist
Second mariage: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QS7-L999-29HZ?i=1422&wc=H8QY-MNL%3A16470801%2C23492102%2C37503201&cc=1321742
1881 Census: https://pasteboard.co/fgpZvFU4aBnI.png
1901 Census: https://pasteboard.co/P41Lrz9aaUeo.png
Death: https://numerique.banq.qc.ca/patrimoine/details/52327/3904427?docref=GPNSyz0kvVvXvKSnLEKwCQ

NosOrigines tree: https://www.nosorigines.qc.ca/GenealogieQuebec.aspx?genealogie=Sercia_Jacques&pid=2012675

Thanks!

[ranarana]

Hello
in his act of naturalization his city in france is saint ambroix gard france
a greeting
rana

https://www.bac-lac.gc.ca/eng/discover/immigration/citizenship-naturalization-records/citizenship-montreal-1851-1945/Pages/image.aspx?Image=vol883-00003110-00000001&URLjpg=http%3a%2f%2fcentral.bac-lac.gc.ca%2f.item%2f%3fid%3dvol883-00003110-00000001%26op%3dimg%26app%3dnaturalisationmontreal&Ecopy=vol883-00003110-00000001

[mosgau]

Wow great find! Thank you so much, I'll be on my way to continue the research. I really feel like a detective since I started investigating on the Sercia/Carraz couple.

[mosgau]

Thank you for the help, I was able to find him. The name is Jacques Cerciat born in Metz before the german takeover!

https://archives.metz.fr/4DCGI/WEB_RegistreVisuImgAppelExterne/309564_1Exzxb495/ILUMP9999

Still searching for the marriage if anyone finds it before me!

[ericdubois]

The marriage is typically held at the place of residence of the bride. Do you have any indication of her place and date of birth? If not, I would look for her death in Saint-Ambroix before 1873, since that appears to be Jacques's last place of residence in France.

Eric

[mosgau]

Thank you for the info! Unfortunately I was hoping to get this information from the marriage. I will look closely into St-Ambroix.

[ericdubois]

Nothing on Joséphine yet, but while looking for her death, I found Jacques's sister Françoise (death n°73, view 249). Her parents match Jacques's parents in NosOrigines. She was born ca 1855 in Gaud, St Béat, Haute Garonne (near the Spanish border).

http://gard.viewer.anaphore.org/series/FRAD030_ETAT_CIVIL/SAINT_AMBROIX/REGISTRES/FRAD030_227_00082

Eric

[ericdubois]

I went back to double-check Jacques's parents as the back-and-forth between Metz and Haute-Garonne was unusual. I wanted to confirm we were not dealing with homonyms. Instead, it looks like we're dealing with a family of travelers, which tends to make searches difficult.

Nosorigines only links to the first page of the marriage. Here are links to both pages.
https://archives.metz.fr/4DCGI/WEB_RegistreVisuImgAppelExterne/310016_1Exzxb502/ILUMP9999
https://archives.metz.fr/4DCGI/WEB_RegistreVisuImgAppelExterne/310017_1Exzxb502/ILUMP9999
- Marriage in Metz 31 JUL 1844
- Pierre CERIAT, 28, born in Argus-Dessus (Haute-Garonne) on 16 FEB 1816, traveling salesman, living in Metz
- Illegitimate son of Marie CERCIAT, 68, living in Argus-Dessus
- Jeanne FERRÉ, 26, born in Fos (Haute-Garonne) on 28 DEC 1817, traveling saleswoman, living in Metz
- Daughter of Jean FERRÉ fit Catalat, brewer, deceased in Fos on 6 APR 1833
and Pétronille LAUSAY(?), deceased in Fos on 14 SEP 1840
sister of Pierre FERRÉ, 32, traveling salesman, living in Metz (witness)

Jacques is not mentioned in the marriage, so he must have been born after that date.

So we know the family is originally from Haute-Garonne, resides in Metz in 1844, and returns to Haute-Garonne before 1855 (birth of Françoise). Jacques is born between those 2 events, probably closer to the first.

Eric

[ericdubois]

Based on the decennial tables, there are 3 CERCIAT born in Metz during that period:
- Jacques CERCIAT, registered on 1 OCT 1844 (section 2)
- Jeanne Pétronille CERCIAT, registered on 16 JUL 1846 (section 2)
- Pierre CERCIAT, registered on 16 JUN 184851 (section 612)

This allows us to find Jacques's birth (n°202) born on 30 SEP 1844 in Metz, and confirm his parents.
https://archives.metz.fr/4DCGI/WEB_RegistreVisuImgAppelExterne/309564_1Exzxb495/ILUMP9999

I'll let you check the other 2 if you want:
https://archives.metz.fr/4DCGI/Web_changePageListe/000200323330/h29104/ILUMP26878

Eric

[mosgau]

Yes thank you, I found Jacques, the only part I'm missing now is his marriage with Josephine. If you find anything on your side it would be awesome! Thanks

[ericdubois]

Did you update the Nosorigines tree? I could swear some of the info wasn't there yesterday.

If I understand properly, the only mention of Josephine DALCIER is in the 1878 second marriage.

Based on the 1881 census. the first 2 children (ages 9 and were born in France, and the next 3 (ages 6, 2, and 5m) were born in Québec.

This would place Jacques's first marriage before 1872 and his immigration between 1873 and 1875. This also suggests the 3rd child, Michel, was Joséphine's. So she would have died in Québec between 1875 and 1878. We could have kept looking for a long time in France.

The next step is to look for Peronne and Clothilde's birth in France, and Michel's birth in Québec.

Eric

[mosgau]

Yes I keep updating nosOrigines when I can. Thank you for taking an interest in the story of my ancestors I will fill you in because the story is more complicated than that. I have pretty much everyone's births and marriages even if they are not updated on nosOrigines, the only missing piece of the puzzle is Josephine.

First François Larochette married Claudine Déplante and had at least 1 son and 2 daughters with her, one of the girls died and they gave the same name to the second. Then Claudine died and François married Jeanne in 1870 and had 2 girls with her, Peronne and Clotilde. They then moved to Quebec between 1873 and 1875 with the 2 girls but François left his first son and daughter at Aix maybe thinking he would bring them to Canada when settled. His son was around 10 years old at that time and he later had a kid and never saw his father again.

During all this time Jacques married Josephine and she must have died in France because I never found her in Quebec and a ship list I found has a Jac Cerssier aged 29 alone on the Nestorian boat, boarding the ship in july 1873 and dropping in Halifax 2 weeks later (3 months after a big shipwreck near Halifax). The sound of the name, the year and age would fit Jacque Sercia (Cerciat).

Back to Quebec in 1875, François and Jeanne have their 3rd child together, Michel. In 1877 Jeanne have a 4th child with François but this one dies at 3 months old. Then an other mystery, François is never heard of again but 3 months after the death of Jean Larochette his last son, Jeanne gets pregnant either from François or Jacques and an unknown man in his 40's is found and inhumated in this parish. Forward 6 months and Jeanne + Jacques gets married, then 3 months later Jeanne delivers a "legitimate" baby with Jacques. 1 month later this baby dies as well and then they have all the Sercia babies we know of.

After this, on all the census Jacques gives his name (Sarcia(h)) to François kids but in their marriages he is referred to as the step-father and they are called Larochette.

Thanks!

[ericdubois]

Thanks for the clarification. It's a reminder that census cannot always be taken literally, especially with multiple marriages.

It's possible that Joséphine died before Jacques's departure. But it's also possible that she intended to join him after he settled but wasn't able to. Since Jacques cannot write, we only have the phonetic spelling to go by.

The passenger list is from Liverpool. I wonder if a passenger list from France (probably Marseille, given his last location) to Liverpool is also available.

Eric

[mosgau]

Yes, they help but they can also lead to false interpretations. I have a feeling that Josephine died before, but your scenario is also possible. My only question is if she died between 1873 and 1877, would Jacques be able to get the information overseas? Since he must have known before he married Jeanne, unless he lied and she was not dead I also tried to find passenger lists from France to Liverpool but I don't know if they exist, would you know of such things?

[ericdubois]

There are passenger lists from the Havre. Not sure if the ones from Marseille have been preserved. But if Jacques lived in Saint-Ambroix, he most likely boarded in Marseille.

There are also passport archives, but most are only accessible on-site in each department.

There was mail in the 19th century, although not as fast as now. People could communicate with their family members across the ocean. There were also "public writers" who would read and write for those who could not.

Eric